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The Sleaze Factor [was:FRAUD ALERT! (was: [OM] Macro kit...)]

Subject: The Sleaze Factor [was:FRAUD ALERT! (was: [OM] Macro kit...)]
From: Robert Bund <rbund@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 05:27:47 -0500
Well........another voice heard from! - me!

Before recounting the sordid details (very few, really) of my own
involvement with our Mr. Cloutier, I'd like to comment on Doris'
observations: 

*- DORIS FANG -* wrote:
[snip]
 I want the best of vibes
> in my photo equipment. Nothing less will do.

Now, who could argue with that sentiment?

>   Second, the part about suing the person who bought the stuff seems
> repulsive to me. How is it their fault ? Why would you inflict legal
> BS upon them and ruin their enjoyment of the things they just bought?
> Unbelievable.

Couldn't agree more.  Regardless of whether Jan Steinman's lawyer could
find some type of legal grounds on which to base a suit against the
other buyer (who could easily have been me, by the way), this society is
entirely too litigious - it's a shame, really.  

>   Maybe I'm too naive, and this is how everything works nowadays in this
> world, but not for me. The few people I have dealt with on this list were
> truthful, honest and acted like my friends, not fiduciary barracudas.

Likewise.

> Their good will translates into good feelings from using the stuff.
>   Maybe the world doesn't end with bangs, whimpers or men shooting each
> other in the streets, but with ill-will, anger, and threats in a court of
> law. This has been a very sad thing to see here.  Maybe I should watch
> Judge Judy more often...It's only camera stuff, Jan. Be happy.

Excellent advice - eccept the Judge Judy part.

> 
>                                  *= Doris Fang =*
________________________________________________________________________
[Excerpts of Jan Steinman's post & my involvement]: 

{On Saturday, October 17, Alain Duquet posted to this list on behalf of
REMI
CLOUTIER of Quebec with a list of Olympus macro gear for sale, with an
asking price of $500.

On Sunday morning, the 18th, I called Mr. Cloutier, and discovered that
it
was really a private auction, and he already had been offered $550.} 

I'd have to look at the phone records to be certain, but I think I had
already spoken to "Our Mr. Cloutier" by that time.  To make a long story
short, I had told him that I was willing to buy the equipment at the
$500 asking price - to which, he said that he had already been offered
$500 and wanted more.  At that point, I was beginning to suspect "The
Sleaze Factor" but I gave him the benefit of the doubt by assuming that
the communication between him and Alain Duquet was imprecise.  I told
him that I would pay $550 if that's what it would take.  Again, to
condense the conversation, we agreed to speak again on Monday evening
and that HE WOULD MAKE NO DEAL IN THE INTERIM.

{I said
that I was going on a business trip on Monday, and would not be able to
make further bids, and asked him how much he would take to close the
deal
on the spot. He mentioned that someone might be willing to pay him $600,
so
I offered him $650 to close the auction on the spot. He asked if he
could
have a couple hours to think about it.

I called back at 1700 Quebec time, and he said he now had an offer of
$675,
and I said I would go $700, but only if he would agree to the sale on
the
spot, since I was going away. He said he "liked my offer very much" and
agreed to accept my offer.}
[snip]
 
What I don't understand at this point is why Jan Steinman continued to
deal with this character - "Our Mr. Cloutier".

I spoke to "Our Mr. Cloutier" on Monday, not knowing the degree to which
he had already revealed himself as belonging to the "Ultimate Sleaze
Club".  He explained that he would not be able to honor our agreement to
speak on Monday night - prior to his finalizing any deals.  He told me
that the equipment had been sold - for $700, that is unless I was
willing to "up the ante" in a significant way.  At this point, I would
say that he was "giggling with glee" at his good fortune.  Needless to
say, "Our Mr. Cloutier's Sleaze Factor" had now been fully revealed and
I passed.  By the way, I'm not at all surprised that he ultimately went
with some other buyer, thereby reneging on his deal with Jan Steinman.
That is the nature of "The Sleaze Factor" - and at first detecting it,
anyone who wants to enjoy life (as I think Doris might say - please
excuse the presumptuousness, Doris), should turn and "walk away".

Regards,
-Bob-

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