Hi,
Alright, normally I'm wise enough to simply ignore this stuff, but this time
I'll add a few comments, first off, thanks guys, for teaching me three new
English words which I had to look up :)
They were:
surreptitiously (Mickey)
epiphanies (Les)
acerbic (Oben)
There you have it! Indeed we do learn even from threads like these...;)
Then:
> left me thinking whether this implies that the list is polarised into:
> 1. Those who have bought things off Tom...
> and
> 2. Those who haven't...
Hmmm, I'm not so sure. So far I've never bought anything from Tom (partially
due to the crappy present dollar <-> guilder exchange rate). Yet, I am in no
way against his FS posts to the list. Tom is more than fair in his deals, he
does not occult where he obtained the items and he most certainly is not
ripping us off. Apart from this, Tom in no way is putting a gun against our
heads to buy his stuff. If one's not interested in it for whatever reason,
simply don't buy it, but do not get upset about it.
> I think that selling things as a part of a hobby is OK but I believe that
> the volume that one trades determines whether that activity is a hobby or
a
> business. I didn't think Tom *really* hides the fact that he is a
> businessman and that he is interested in making a profit from his sales.
The way I understand it, Tom buys big packages, keeps specific items he
wants for his collection and sells the rest as a means of financing the
items he wants to keep. Nothing wrong with that. Tom is by no means
obligated to become an idealist who should dedicate his life to taking all
the risk by buying stuff, and then selling it all to us at 0 profit. Boy,
wouldn't that be handy :) Really, I see no issue with this means of trading.
Of course it would not be nice if he would buy something for say $10 and
then would charge us some $700 for it. Yet, as far as I have seen, his
prices have always been very fair, so in that respect he's doing many list
members a BIG favour in the respect that he allows them to obtain rare
pieces such as 16/3.5 Fisheyes for reasonable prices. Do not expect to get
Doris Fang steal deals, but do not expect to get Cambridge Camera treatment
from him either. My point of view? If you need some good stuff at a decent
price, Tom would be one of the first people to check with. Are you really
desperate for a steal deal? Go out and check the market yourself. Browse all
online auction sites, camera store pages, go out to pawn shops and with
enough perseverance and time (trust me, this DOES require effort) you will
occassionally find a steal deal. Just don't expect to lay back relaxed,
watching a computer screen waiting for Tom to throw his stuff at steal deal
prices in your face. "You want a 16/3.5 for $50, sure have mine, I don't
care if I had to pay $500 for it, sure you can have it at that price...", no
way, Jose, uhhhh, no way, Larry.
> As long as he makes the fact that he is a specialist OM equipment salesman
> clear, and doesn't just assume the guise of a hobbiest who owns a small
> collection of lenses that he trades once in a while
I have no motive for questioning Tom's motivation, nor does it interest me.
If people want to call him an Oly saleman, fine with me, if people want to
call him a hobbiest, fine with me too. No obligation to justify his
background/motivations, that's up to him to tell or not.
> I'm OK with him choosing whatever price he determines for his T-20's or
any other OM gear
> he trades in.
Exactly, even though some people's behaviour does not always attest to it,
we are all fully grown adults, we can all read the messages that come in via
this list, so a reasonable amount of intelligence should be present in all
of us. In other words, we can all make our own calls on what should be a
fair price and what not, more so, we can all make our own calls on what we
would like to spend on gear and what not, so even if Tom _would_ ask unfair
prices such as say $200 for a T20, it would still be his business to do so
or not (of course this would be a poor and not very nice call on his
behalf), if someone then buys it, well they only have their own ignorance to
blame for it. Nonetheless, so far I've never seen Tom asking ludicrous
prices, so the above hypothetical scenario is just that, and it doesn't
apply to the situation at hand.
> I don't have any background to the comments Larry made but personally
> thought they were quite funny taken in isolation.
[Agitated mode on]
Well, here it shows that you are probably rather new to the list, for I for
one person am growing tired of his continuous childish remarks (feel free to
flame me OFF-LIST Larry). Really, there's virtually nothing to be learned
from his posts, not even fancy words. Come on Larry, get over it. Personally
I don't give a rat's *ss about other people's financial situations, Tom is
in software and is doing very well, I'm in software and let's just say I'm
not exactly doing very well financially, yet do you hear me constantly
complaining about it? No. At times I do mention not being able to afford
this and this lens or that and that piece of equipment, but apart from that
I'm not picking on someone who is able to afford the stuff, good for them.
If you really think you have that little money you might want to consider
doing something I'm doing too: finding some means to make money after the
hours of your daytime job (I'm speaking about LEGAL ways, of course!).
Indeed, this is the only way I can afford to obtain fancy stuff like the
35-80/2.8. If you would invest half the time you waste on making jabs at Tom
in learning how to program or do whatever it is that interests you and/or
can make money for you, you would soon have some funds to buy some nice
stuff too. Come on, this list is not a pity gallery, get over it and do
something about it.
> Unlike Larry, I'm not throwing my T-20 in the garbage, however like an
earlier post by
> Wayne (also in Australia) I got my T-20 for the equivalent of $10 US with
case.
I got one cheaply too (some $20), but how long did it take me to get it? A
lot of time, as well as a lot of effort. Did I complain afterwards to Tom
because he asks some $40 for his T20s (which still is below the typical
price they sell for over here at camera stores)? No. That's what I'm getting
at, steal deals are not thrown in your face, you have to actively pursue
them. Larry found a $20 T20 with a pouch and manual, well that's a great
deal and I congratulate you on that, so why don't you just share that little
moment of joy by mentioning it too the list in a positive way, rather than
doing so in the negative way by showing an obvious feeling of envy (or
jealousy even) of Tom. When I see someone happily posting having found X
piece of equipment for Y dollars, I am pleased by reading their post, but
when I see these childish jabs, they merely disgust me, even if they
implicated that Larry had actually gotten a nice deal.
Then for Larry's other contributions, I can hardly recall him having made
some serious contributions. Sure, at times he does recommend more
inexpensive alternatives for lenses such as the 35-80/2.8, so there's some
value in that, but overall spoken the "signal to noise ratio" is very low.
Come on Larry, get over it, grow up, participate like the rest of us do and
stop this childish behaviour.
[Agitated mode off]
Cheers!
Olafo
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