George,
I think you and I could have a long and interesting discussion about this
topic, provided of course that we both could stay cool about a very
emotional issue. (That's not a poke at you, more at myself as I do tend to
get worked up easily.)
But I think nearly all list members at this point would probably like the
topic to go away, so I think it's best if I don't respond to your points,
because if I respond, then you'll want to respond, which will give me
something else to say, and on and on. When the OT stuff gets too serious
or goes on too long, there's too much potential to alienate people.
Besides, I'm new in these here parts and need to behave myself awhile
longer.
As for Mick and Keith, I think the more important question these days is:
"Which one of them is more scary-looking up close?"
Linda
> [Original Message]
> From: George M. Anderson <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 2/8/03 1:14:52 AM
> Subject: RE: [OM] RE: [OT] Protestors
>
> Linda;
>
> Thanks for a well thought out response.
>
> Sure, I was being a bit broad in my generalization, part of the
> guilt-by-association thing.
>
> You sound like the exception to the rule. Someone who is against war -
> period. That's a noble way to go. I hope you don't think that I believe
we
> should just lob bombs around indiscriminately.
>
> But we've got a pretty serious situation going on now in the world and
> operating out of fear, cowardice and/or utopian pipe dreams ain't gonna
cut
> it against the likes of Husshame and Bin Drinkin.
>
> Here's a question you really need to answer - what would have been your
> response to Hitler or Pearl Harbor?
>
> I believe you when you say you were aginst the Yugoslavia war. But were
you
> out marching? If you were, you were mighty lonely. Where were all these
> other groups? I'm sorry, but what shall I take from these observations:
>
> * Massive demonstations against the '91 Iraq war. A war which was over in
> days with an extremely small number of 'collateral damage' casualties.
> Both due to critically detailed planning by Schwarzkopf (sp?) and use of
> 'smart bombs' and cruise missiles against targets in populated areas.
>
> * Nobody saying a bleepin peep about Yugoslavia. A 'war' which was
'fought'
> by blindly dropping bombs from 40,000 feet, killing far more civilians
than
> military.
>
> * Massive demonstrations now about Iraq again. A war which will be fought
> with even smarter weapons than in '91 and thus civilian casualties will be
> held to an absolute minimum, at least that will certainly be the goal. Of
> course, Mr Saddam is unlikely to go quietly into the night and will try to
> take the whole planet with him, given the chance. As we've already heard,
> he's given the OK to use chemical weapons (that he doesn't have)against
us.
> There's a saying in old West movies "This man needs killin." His cowardly,
> untrustworty army will turn tail as they did in '91. Bush should announce
> loud and clear that any Iraqi officer who uses chemical weapons or orders
> them used will be summarily executed. Any smart Iraqi officer is gonna
know
> who'll be picking up the chips when this is over and hopefully will wave
his
> white flag right away.
>
> OK, enuf about this already. I don't want a stinkin war either. But 'You
> can't always get what you want', so 'Gimme Shelter', 'Paint it Black' and
> 'Jumpin Jack Flash!' send those 'Street Fightin' Men' into Baghdad and
take
> care of that 'Monkey Man.'
>
> George
>
> Say, is Mick or Keith the more important Stone? :>) Nevermind.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:owner-olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Linda Wunderlich
> > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:26 AM
> > To: olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: [OM] RE: [OT] Protestors
> >
> >
> > You may well be right about the SDS -- certainly your experience with
that
> > particular protest supports that view, and based on other things
> > I've read,
> > I'm inclined to agree with you on this. But as one of today's "war
> > protestors," I disagree with your broad characterization of us as of the
> > same ilk.
> >
> > Yes, the "ANSWER Coalition," which has organized some of the major US
> > antiwar protests recently, has its share of flakes and
> > anti-everythings and
> > wannabe communists and a pretty large contingent of druggy-looking
college
> > students who might very well be there as part of a lifestyle thing to go
> > along with their 70s-era bellbottom jeans. I went to one of their
> > mini-protests at an arms convention in DC last fall (it was across the
> > street from where I was working and I was curious what the fuss
> > was about),
> > and I was amused and a bit depressed by the motley and -- frankly --
silly
> > group assembled there, including a young man with a bullhorn who
> > was basing
> > his antiwar arguments on the fact (?-- I have no idea) that
> > Condoleeza Rice
> > has a battleship named after her. Whatever, as they say.
> >
> > But today's antiwar protestors also include the National Council of
> > Churches (representing 50 million US congregants, admittedly many of
whom
> > don't necessarily agree with their leadership), Physicians for Social
> > Responsibility, and business and veterans groups, as well as the
> > "mainstream" left-leaning usual suspects like the Sierra Club et. al.
The
> > Catholic Church -- a group whose conservative stances on several other
> > issues cause me distress -- is opposed to this coming war based on their
> > "principles of a just war," just about every one of which this
> > war flies in
> > the face of. Armed Forces retired generals and former Pentagon and
other
> > officials object to this war on winnability, strategic, or foreign
policy
> > grounds. What a bunch of irresponsible anarchists!
> >
> > Look up the groups "Win Without War" or "United for Peace." They're
> > bending over backwards to be sure everyone knows they're true-blue
> > patriotic Americans rather than leftist stealth commies.
> >
> > I'm sure I'm far to the left of you, but I'm no anarchist. I've
> > even taken
> > an official oath to uphold the United States Constitution no less than
> > three times, something many US citizens -- including many of the
> > conservative pro-war types -- haven't ever done. I believe in
government
> > -- I spent 9 years working hard in a federal agency when I could have
> > earned far more money in the private sector. I've voted in every single
> > election since I've been an adult, except for one off-year election
when I
> > was moving and had no jurisdiction to call home for the purpose
> > of electing
> > the local sheriff. (And I even felt guilty about missing that one.)
> >
> > I also believe in my right -- and indeed, my responsibility -- to
protest
> > actions by my government that I believe to be unjust, immoral,
> > irresponsible, or just plain stupid. Democracy is supposed to be
> > government by the people, and I am The People, and I intend to speak up.
> > Even though it won't do a damn bit of good.
> >
> > Linda Wunderlich
> >
> > Oh, and by the way, I didn't approve of the Yugoslavia bombings either.
> > Democrat bombs bad; Republican bombs bad.
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: George M. Anderson <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Date: 2/7/03 12:15:43 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [OM] RE: [OT] Protestors
> > >
> > <snip>
> > > Although I did pretty much lean to the left at the time, I wrote SDS
off
> > as
> > > just a bunch of argumentative anarchists with only complaints, no
> > solutions,
> > > who would protest their own mothers if they thought it would be
> > a lark. I
> > > think todays war 'protesters' are pretty much the same ilk.
> > <snip>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
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