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[OM] Re: Canada Day

Subject: [OM] Re: Canada Day
From: "Earl Dunbar" <edunbar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:58:40 -0400
Very well put, and I DO understand the intended role of the electoral college, 
the objective of balance.  And yes, there is a parallel to the bicameral nature 
of British (and hence Canadian) parliamentary democracy.  I think it is a bit 
anachronistic at this point but I wouldn't expend a lot of energy arguing its 
usefulness, as there a lot more important things on which to focus.

My personal preference for parliamentary form of government because you vote 
(at least to a greater degree) for a =party=, not a specific person forr PM, 
hence to a great extent you are voting party policy/platform more than you do 
in the US system.  The fact that the executive can be of one party and the 
legislative bodies ruled by a majority of opposing parties leads to more 
gridlock, IMO.

Earl

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 7/2/2004 at 1:49 AM John A. Lind wrote:

>At 09:20 PM 7/1/04, Earl Dunbar wrote:
>
>>And guess what, no Electoral "College" (haven't any of those clowns
>earned 
>>their degrees yet?) to ensconce a President that the people didn't vote
>for.
>
>At the risk of starting something . . . I will state the caveat up 
>front.  This is simply a statement of the arguments, not a defense for
>them.
>
>The Electoral College is intended (by the Constitution) to have a balance 
>similar to that which is reflected by the two legislative houses.  The 
>House of Representatives is based upon a "one man one vote" principle to 
>represent voters more directly.  It's based on population and each 
>Congressional District is supposed to have approximately the same 
>population. OTOH, the Senate is intended to represent the states equally 
>without regard to population distribution or land area.  Overtly, it was 
>intended to prevent the few largest, most populous states exerting
>complete 
>control unchecked, at least partially reining them in.
>
>Largely unstated publicly when the Constitution was written, it was also 
>the Deep South's method for protecting slavery from being abolished by the 
>more populous North.  The Constitution would never have been ratified 
>without these compromises that give some weight to each state and its 
>interest on an equal basis with all the other staes.  Slavery was a hot 
>issue from the get-go.
>
>Various compromises were made during the first 80+ years regarding state 
>admissions including Mason-Dixon and the Missouri Compromise . . . Kansas 
>"Free" and Missouri "Slave" notwithstanding the Mason-Dixon Line; for
>quite 
>a few years a northern state could not be admitted without a new Deep
>South 
>state also being admitted at the same time; the Deep South Senators would 
>block the admission.
>
>In the original Constitution, Senators were elected to the Senate by the 
>state legislature.  Whoever controlled the state legislature sent their
>boy 
>to the Senate when a seat was due to be filled for another 6-year 
>term.  This changed to direct popular vote with the 17th Amendment in 
>1912.  In the event of a vacancy before the end of the 6-year term (death, 
>resignation, etc.), the state's governor appoints a Senator to fill that 
>vacancy until an election is held for that seat (in accordance with the 
>state's method for doing so).
>
>The number of Electors each state has for the Electoral College matches
>the 
>number of Congressmen *and* Senators the state has.  This carries into it 
>the same overt purpose cited above for the U.S. Senate . . . to provide at 
>least some counterbalance to the few large and most populous states.  Thus 
>the makeup of the Electoral College.  Two additional nuances about having 
>an Electoral College versus simply gathering together the Congressmen and 
>Senators.  Senate seats are 6-year terms with 1/3rd re-elected every two 
>years and both seats from a single state must be staggered.  The Electoral 
>College is elected every four years allowing the state's voters to make a 
>decision that might be different from that which would be made by a
>Senator 
>(originally chosen by the state's legislature) who was seated four years 
>previously.  In addition, from a practical political strategy the
>President 
>and Vice President will likely *never* be from the same state.  The
>ballots 
>for President and Vice President are cast by the Electoral College 
>separately and the Electors *must* cast at least one of these ballots for 
>someone that is *not* from their own state (read the 12th Amendment).
>
>Is it complex?  Most certainly.  The underlying reasons, right or wrong, 
>aren't understood very well by most voters, especially the basic
>philosophy 
>reaching back into the original Constitutional Convention that wrote it, 
>that the Federal Government should represent not only the individual 
>voters' interests, but the states' (and in some aspects the states'
>elected 
>governments) as a whole also.  For Good or Ill, and all its warts and 
>imperfections, it does that with (oft imperfect) balance.  The occasions
>in 
>which the popular vote has a majority for one "ticket" and the Electoral 
>College balloting results in a majority for the another are relatively 
>rare.  If you study these "upside down" election results, you will find 
>they were close in popular vote and ended up that way due to the slight 
>extra weight given to the smaller, less populous states with fewer 
>Congressional seats that were carried in larger number by the winnning 
>"ticket."  Again, right or wrong, I believe the Founding Fathers 
>deliberately set it up that way, so that in a very, very close popular 
>vote, the States' interests with each state having parity with all the 
>others without regard to population size, would prevail.
>
>Again, I'm not trying to defend this one way or the other . . . simply to 
>explain *why* it's the way it is today.  I have my opinions about the 
>matter but won't express them here.
>
>BTW, if the U.S. Congress and Senate are set up in a manner that 
>individuals' intrests are at lest partially balanced by states' interests, 
>I belive there is a similar parallel in British Parliament's bicameral 
>structure.  Its two houses are intended to strike a balance between the 
>individual Commoners' interests and that of the Crown and his/her landed 
>and titled "cronies" (a bad word for it but I'm going to leave it that 
>way).  The difference is what the bicameral structures are intended to 
>better balance.
>
>-- John Lind
>
>
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