In a message dated 8/21/2005 12:09:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
afildes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> eBay is a business. Were either you or I that business, we would
> not be
> very pleased if a seller used our venue to sell their car . . .
> however they
> only listed the hubcap with a condition of selling the rest of the
> car to the
> buyer at a predetermined price (off the books) if they were the
> successful
> bidder on the hubcap.
>
No, but aBey is a medium for selling, not a broker.
We have no disagreement and when you use their service you agree to pay them
a small fee for their listing/providing advertising/facilitating your
selling your product. The contract is simple. You agree to pay certain fees
for
listing and certain fees in the event of a sale. No one is forcing you to use
their service and there are many other ways you can dispose of your stuff.
They are, in my opinion, able to bring you more potential buyers than any
other service and they do it at a very reasonable fee. They put you and your
stuff in the market in a way that no other service can. They do, in my opinion
earn their keep.
I have sold many
things to buyers who asked if I had additional items. If I sold the
hubcap at a swap meet and the buyer asked if I had an engine at home,
would you suggest that I should pay an additional fee to the market
when he drops by my house the following week and buys one?
No, I wouldn't and this is not addressing the issue raised by your previous
post. Specifically what you suggested and what I responded to, was your
suggestion that you list an item and tell a potential buyer that you had
additional specific gear your would be willing to sell them "off the books" if
they
were the successful buyer of your first item. That may not be exactly the way
you stated it, however that was the net affect of your proposal.
Should I now remit a fee to the dealer?
No
I try to do the same with selling system gear on Oboy. It is simply a
separate transaction, involving an item that has never been listed.
What you suggested was tying the sale of additional equipment to an original
purchase, both of which were generated by your listing as you were going to
put that information in the original listing.
You may as well claim that a professional lister should not mention
that he has a load of stuff or has a storefront on the likelihood
that a later transaction may occur off the net.
I believe eBay prohibits linking a storefront to an auction. A lister can
link their eBay store to their eBay listings and eBay gets paid when someone
avails themselves of this service.
> eBay is, IMHO, a true example of a free enterprise system in which
> buyers
> and sellers determine market value. Market value being that price
> at which a
> willing seller and a willing buyer agree to complete a
> transaction. It is a
> fair and open system in which no one has an advantage.
How quaint! :) The problem with free enterprise is that it is rarely
free or enterprising.
How cynical!
Private seller and private buyer and both
ethical and co-operative - sure. But the two parties are rarely on an
equal footing, even on Ubye - or at least not since its earliest
days. Professional seller and naive buyer? Ignorant seller and
bargain hunter? I'd suspect that a significant number of transactions
reflect and unequal power relationship.
More cynicism. What an unfortunate choice for viewing the world!
Bought a Paiste cymbal for my son the other day and got it very cheap. The
seller now claims that it had been stolen from the rehearsal room when he went
to pick it
up. I'm pretty sure that he just doesn't want to let it go for the
price but what can I do?
It is indeed unfortunate that the world is not perfect and there are
sometimes people who do not act in an honorable way. You may be correct in
your
assessment of what happened on this transaction. There have been a few times
in
my life where similar circumstances have occurred, however I do not
generalize my view of the world based on what, in my experience, has been the
atypical. Life seems to work better for me when I live it that way.
In fact, the approach that I suggested above is both enterprising and
free!
Some might say sneaky and conniving.
I would be more sympathetic to iBot if their subsidiary PayPal
was fairer to me - but they've both had their slice of my action
They both have provided separate services for which they charge a fee in the
event you make a free will choice to use those individual services. How
could they be fairer to you?
and I'll reserve my sympathy and concern for people like me
And how would you describe that group?
rather than megacorporations who are doing very nicely indeed thankyou.
In my experience corporations which are successful, and both of the ones you
are currently beating up on are successful, get that way by taking risks in
the process of providing goods and services which people need or want. They
also create jobs for people who generally are less risk tolerant than the
people who have invested in the corporation.
None of this is meant to say that corporations are perfect. They aren't.
They sometimes do stupid things, make bad decisions and don't treat people
right. They even sometimes cook the books or do things "off the books" in
their
attempt to circumvent the rules. Unfortunately they are not the only ones
who from time to time get caught doing such things. If your eyes are open,
you will see it in all our institutions, whether they be schools, labor
unions,
churches, non-profits, public service organizations, political parties and
the list goes on. Yes, it is an imperfect world and the reason it works as
well as it does, it that the good out weights the bad and generally people act
in an honorable way.
Bill Barber
P.S. For the record, I have no problem with a buyer and seller who have
completed a transaction on eBay developing a relationship and buying and
selling
stuff without using eBay or PayPal. What I objected to initially was the
suggestion of putting an offer in your eBay listing of making other equipment
available "off the books" to the winner of your auction. We are all wired
differently and I have in the past asked a seller to list or re-list an item
on
eBay so I could buy it. Perhaps I did it that way because as one who has
owned some kind of successful business for the better part of the last 50
years,
I have a different appreciation for what it takes to have a business work.
I know what it takes to make payroll, to build and expand a business and to
maintain a business. I also know what it is like to bust you butt working,
doing all the right things and to not have enough money at the end of the
month
to give myself a paycheck. That hasn't happened in awhile and it has
happened. I know what it is like to provide for my own retirement rather than
depending on a company or a governmental agency to provide it. I know what it
is like to provide for my own health, disability and life insurance needs.
I guess my bottom line is that I want both eBay and PayPal to continue to do
well and when I use their services, I will pay their fees. Should I ever
feel their fees are out of line with the benefit of the service, I'll quit
using
their service. What I won't do, is try to figure out a way to manipulate
them out of their money while still using their service. I figure that is
stealing . . . but then you know, we are all wired different and some wouldn't
feel that way.
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