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[OM] RE : Re: OT: French Empires

Subject: [OM] RE : Re: OT: French Empires
From: "stephan Van den Zegel" <stephan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:28:01 +0100
Of course vichy was antisemite... as the right wing (mainly catholics)
wasbefore the war... but they surely would prefer Mussolini to Hitler
because of the concordat.
At the beginning, situation for the jews was different in the occupied
zone and in the "free" zone... but in both situation Vichy took the
initiative, preceding the german requirements.
Chronologically, the first victims of the collaboration were the
European antifascist (Italians, Spaniards, germans, ...even Belgians)
that the French government had put in camps (like Le Vernet d'Ariège) at
the beginning of the war and that Vichy gave away to the Germans
(richtung Dachau, no stop, and very few came back)...or the Italians
(direzzione La Spezia or the confin system, most of them survived)...

Stephan 


-----Message d'origine-----
De : olympus-owner@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:olympus-owner@xxxxxxxxxx] De la
part de Philippe Le Zuikomane
Envoyé : lundi 12 mars 2007 17:52
À : olympus@xxxxxxxxxx
Objet : [OM] Re: OT: French Empires


Antisemitism was official Vichy doctrine and policy once the petainiste
coup was consummated. A lot of bastards, both in occupied and unoccupied
France, got away with it and I'm happy the Klarsfelds and others have
been tracking them down. Vichy deportations were done without actual
arm-twisting by the Nazis - in the one-third of the country that was not
under direct Nazi rule. The real scandal was how so many in the French
police just followed orders (sound familiar in the 'War on Terror'?). My
mother has an old friend whose dad was prescient enough to flee Paris
for the (Vichy) south in the nick of time. Many of her relatives were
deported and murdered. I grew up among kids whose parents had seen the
inside of a death camp. BTW, the US was doing a great job of keeping the
immigration door shut against most European Jews trying to get the hell
out of Dodge before war broke out, while France took in massive numbers,
as with refugees from Franco, etc. The Air Force and the RAF
  also did a great job of allowing those trains to run all the way to
death's door while French railway men and others were risking their
lives sabotaging train shipments or exfiltrating downed Allied airmen.
OTOH, if you look at the figures, there is little comparison between
Western Europe and the rest. The brunt of the horror was borne by groups
in central and eastern Europe.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wwii_casualties>
You had things like Catholic prelates leading pogroms in the Balkans,
etc. Many of those criminals ended up within a couple of years in the
US, in Latin America, or working alongside Americans in the name of
rolling back the Soviet Bloc. Ditto with the monsters of Unit 731 in
China. What's extremely disturbing to me is to recognize tactics used by
the rabid French extreme right when it took power after the Germans
victory in a time of 'national emergency.' They, too, immediately
started attacking anyone with a specific affiliation. Look no further
than Muslims in the US today: for them, the rule of law and the
Constitution barely apply. - Phil

On 02:10, Larry wrote:

>Its not a myth that there was more enthusiastic participation in
>active antisemitism there than other european countries.
>
>Larry


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