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[OM] Re: Digicams and High ISO

Subject: [OM] Re: Digicams and High ISO
From: Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 02:33:22 -0700
Winsor Crosby wrote:
> A thoughtful analysis as usual, Moose. A few days ago Mike Johnston  
> proposed a design for a perfect pocket digicam. It was OK as far as  
> it went, but while he is an entertaining writer no one will accuse  
> him of being rigorous. Feature 2 and Feature 6 are two aspects of the  
> same issue.   It is quoted here:
>
>
> Feature 1: True shirt-pocket size
> Reason: Many serious photogs who use p/s cameras do so because  
> they're portable and painless to pack.
>   
But don't keep them in your shirt pocket - unless they are drop proof 
per #4.
> Feature 2: No more than 8 megapixels—6 would be better
> Reason: Where too-tiny sensors are concerned, more pixels mean lower  
> image quality, past a certain point.
>   
AMEN!
> Feature 3: RAW capability
> Reason: Using a RAW converter is the best way to extract more image  
> quality out of any given sensor, and eliminates the worry and fuss of  
> setting white balance while shooting.
>   
Generally agreed, although the advantage is less than with DSLRs, as 
they often have only 10 bit A.D converters, mostly because the dynamic 
range of the tiny sensors is limited.
> Feature 4: Waterproof, shockproof, and freeze-proof
> Reason: A take-anywhere camera should be able to be taken anywhere.
>   
Nice, but I wouldn't put it this high. I'm pretty easy on cameras and 
other things are more important to me.
> Feature 5: A zoom lens of no more than 3X, 28–85mm equivalent, ƒ/2.8  
> or faster on the short end.
> Reason: Greater magnification zooms compromise on image quality, and  
> are slower. Most photographers can do anything that needs doing with  
> these focal lengths.
>   
Spoken like a true non-tele eye guy! No, I can't do what "needs" doing 
with 100 mm eq. and the IQ from a crop of a tiny sensor 100 mm eq lens 
is lots poorer than a 200 mm eq lens with the same sensor system.
> Feature 6: Reasonably noise-free to ISO 400.
> Reason: I know, it's asking a lot of a small sensor. Still, Fuji  
> manages.
>   
Hmmm. Well, Fuji manages in good part by using a bigger sensor, so the 
camera can't meet some other criteria. Not really shirt pocket size, but 
just right in their beautifully designed belt "holster".
> Feature 7: An articulated LCD
> Reason: Many tinycam users use the LCD as a viewfinder.
>   
Makes the camera too big. I'd love one, but the right combo of other 
characteristics with that too doesn't exist for me yet. Somebody makes 
digis with a way to increase view angle downward for overhead shooting.
> Feature 8: An optical viewfinder
> Reason: Many tinycam users prefer not to use the LCD as a viewfinder.
>   
Necessary on those cameras with low rez and/or poor brightness/NR
> Feature 9: Anti-Shake/Image Stabilization/Whatever Yawanna Callit
> Reason: It's a very useful feature, especially in low light and with  
> tiny cameras that are hard to hold. (I'm still impressed with this  
> technology.)
>   
I don't find small cameras hard to hoold, but IS is great anyway. If the 
F30 had it, you could just about shoot in the dark.
> Feature 10: Must be fast, responsive, and very quiet, with excellent  
> shutter lag and shutter release feel.
> Reason: Because this is a criterion that should be met by any camera  
> that is meant to take pictures with.
>   
YUP
> I would add that it must have some way to check the exposure and  
> control it, especially since many of these small cameras have a very  
> limited dynamic range. 
Yup again. However, it is possible with some practice to judge from the 
image on the LCD what is going to come out in the shot, at least with 
the F10 and F30.

As I pointed out the other day, It is possible to get a live histogram 
and flashing out of gamut on many Canyon A series cameras and the S3
> Ergonomics and ease of use are a definite factor as well. 
I agree. Who designs some of these things? I know the A series are the 
economy line, but the hard switch for review vs. taking is stupid. With 
the Fuji F series, ti doesn' matter what you are doing, if you push the 
shutter release, it takes a picture. One of the things that really 
impressed me about Fuji's designers and the F30 is how thoughtfully they 
improved practical usability in several ways over the F10.
> Both are more important than an articulated LCD, nice  
> as it is. I think his list of desired attributes explains his earlier  
> article condemning this type of camera. 
Oh, yeah. And yes.
> While the F30 has an  
> outstanding image I find it to be a distinctly limited camera  
> especially in light of this list while more capable cameras, as  
> usable cameras, are saddled with about two useful low ISOs, base and  
> the next one up.
>   
Well, you saw the examples in the dpr article you posted. The F30 just 
stomps the rest in IQ, even at base iso, really And it is possible to 
get great shots in bright outdoor conditions. You just have to use at 
least -2/3 E/V and post process for the shadows. Yeah, you have to pay 
attention to what you are doing, but that's what differentiates us from 
the unwashed photographic masses, no?
> I wonder why Fuji has not turned their sensor into a product. Seems  
> like they could take a big bite out of the Sony, Kodak and Panasonic  
> sensor sales. 
I've wondered about that too. Maybe they are too small to provide sensor 
systems and don't want to provide the technology to make them to others.
> It would give Fuji for cash for R&D as well as profit  
> and certainly it would stimulate sensor development by the competition.
>   
That may be just what they are afraid of. As a relatively small player 
with successful niche products, they may not want to encourage 
competition there.

SP-550 UZ with sensor system by Fuji? Sweeet.

Moose

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