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[OM] Re: lithium iron phosphate batteries,

Subject: [OM] Re: lithium iron phosphate batteries,
From: Jan Steinman <Jan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 20:04:50 -0800
> From: AG Schnozz <agschnozz@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>> Exactly! The same goes for ethanol, which by various studies
>> appears to have an energy gain of unity or less -- it may take
>> more energy (from fossil fuel) to produce than it contains.
>
> Those particular "various studies" have long since been
> debunked...


"Debunked" is arguably too strong a word.

There's lots of money -- and corn-state votes -- behind ethanol, and  
the smear machine has geared up accordingly. It's easy to google a  
number of ad-hominem attacks on David Pimentel, the Cornel researcher  
who originally came up with the negative energy return figures, but  
there are peer-reviewed independent verifications from University of  
Minnesota and UC Berkeley.

On the other hand, the USDA claims as much as 2.8 times return. And  
The Government never lies. :-)

So I think the most fair thing to say is that there are a lot of  
different numbers out there, but an emerging consensus is that ethanol  
as a fuel, using conventional methods, is pretty much a way to get  
farm state votes and to drive up the price of corn, without really  
doing much about imported oil. Any blip in oil imports will effect  
ethanol as much as it does gasoline.

Pimentel and the other "less than unity" researchers specifically  
looked at conventional practices, using corn. Brazil seems to show net  
energy gain using sugar cane, but at a cost as rainforest is mowed  
down to make way for cane plantations. And despite all the hoopla and  
hype, not a single switchgrass-ethanol plant has opened nor even been  
planned -- it's lab-only at this point.

We do live in interesting times.

:::: The amount of ethanol needed to fill a big four-wheel-drive SUV  
just once uses enough grain to feed one person for an entire year. --  
Gwynne Dyer ::::
:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward, EcoReality 
http://www.VeggieVanGogh.com 
  ::::




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