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[OM] Re: Cost of gas [Was Re: OT American express]

Subject: [OM] Re: Cost of gas [Was Re: OT American express]
From: John Hudson <OM4T@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:46:46 -0400
Jan .................. you're overdosed on Thomas Robert Malthus !

jh

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jan Steinman" <Jan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <olympus@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:33 AM
Subject: [OM] Cost of gas [Was Re: OT American express]


> 
>> From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> With that great a discrepancy between sale price and cost of  
>> production
>> additional supplies or alternatives would start to rear up...
> 
> Don't count on it. The world has never pumped more than it did in May,  
> 2005 -- 85 million barrels of oil in one day. The housing crisis and  
> financial collapse are a direct, albeit delayed, result of a growing  
> economy bumping up against the glass ceiling of 85mb/d. You cannot  
> grow an economy without growing energy consumption.
> 
> They've had three years since then to come up with alternatives. They  
> didn't find any, even when oil was close to $150.
> 
> So now we bounced off the ceiling and are using well under that  
> amount, but with the price crashed, no one is working on expensive  
> alternatives. One large ethanol firm just declared bankruptcy; they're  
> closing down tar sands processing capacity in Alberta. That will cause  
> the price to remain relatively low -- perhaps even under $50 -- which  
> will fuel growth, which will cause us to bump up against the ceiling  
> again. Only this time, it won't be 85mb/d; it might only be 80. And so  
> on, until it's all gone, or at least unrecoverable at any price.
> 
> Everyone thinks little green bits of paper have something to do with  
> it -- they don't. Energy should be priced in energy. When oil first  
> gushed at Titusville, PA, one consumed one barrel of oil in getting  
> over one hundred out. Today, it's more like five out for one in. The  
> tar sands are under three. Biodiesel is about 1:1.3, ethanol actually  
> consumes more energy in its manufacture than it produces.
> 
> Thus the fallacy of saying, "When the price gets high enough, other  
> sources will become available." When the cost of producing one unit of  
> energy *is* one unit of energy, it doesn't matter at all how many  
> little green bits of paper are shuffled around -- we'll be at entropic  
> heat death as a civilization, and will have to go back to living  
> strictly off of what the sun gives us. Pray that there's enough oil  
> and coal left at that point to make a few more solar panels and wind  
> turbines.
> 
> :::: By 2030... fossil fuel resources will be totally out by then. --  
> Katsuhiko Machida, President of Sharp ::::
> :::: Jan Steinman, EcoReality <http://www.EcoReality.org> ::::
> 
> 
> 
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