I'm not so sure - I tried a PC as well with the same result. Web searching
yielded plenty of stuff about the fragile nature of the flash memory
structures and the need to repair them with a hard format.
There is certainly no general problem with FAT32 and the Mac - several of my
drives are formatted that way to allow sharing with PCs.
Tom
On 3 July 2010 15:14, Chuck Norcutt wrote:
> If the camera can read and write all parts of the card the card is not
> corrupted. Now we have two reports of Apple computers which can't seem
> to get a complete handle on flash cards. Maybe I should note that FAT32
> (required for flash cards > 2GB) is not a native format for Apple
> software? Otherwise I don't know.
>
> Chuck Norcutt
>
>
> Tom Fenwick wrote:
> > I haven't had this problem with partial files, but I've had something
> which
> > may be similar. A 16GB card which the camera would format and fill with
> > images and video I could view on camera, but when I put the card in a
> reader
> > the computer could see all the filenames, but only recognised the card as
> > 11GB, and reported errors trying to read the files on the rest of the
> card.
> >
> > I had hired the kit out to someone else for a day, and they reported the
> > problem, but they put it down to having shot images with two different
> > firmware versions on the same card. Only when it later happened to me
> with
> > the same card did I realise that it was some kind of flash card
> corruption
> > problem.
> >
> > I figured since the camera could play/display all the problem files, and
> I
> > really wanted to recover them, I thought it might be worth installing the
> > camera software which I'd never previously used and see if there was any
> way
> > to push the data from the camera rather than pull it from the computer.
> In
> > fact this wasn't necessary; the DPP software had no trouble getting all
> the
> > files off the card where Finder, Lightroom etc had failed.
> >
> > Once this was done I used the Apple disc utility to do a "hard" format -
> > scrubbing the card and creating a new volume etc, then formatting it in
> > camera, it was back to 16GB and has been totally reliable since.
> >
> > Obviously I'm talking about a different problem, different camera and
> > different software, but I think it could be related? Perhaps a different
> > part of the structural information on the card has become corrupted?
> >
> > The intriguing bit is how the camera was able to fill the card, and the
> DPP
> > software seemed completely unaware of the problem; somehow being able to
> > take the camera's word for what it had rather than relying on a bad
> > directory structure and getting hung up.
> >
> > I'm pig headed enough to keep at it until it yields, but not smart enough
> to
> > know what is really going on.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > On 3 July 2010 13:40, Chuck Norcutt wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry, yes, I did mean camera rather than computer in case #1. Since
> >> you could freely view them on the camera the images on the card were OK.
> >> Since corrupted images from that card were seen on three computers the
> >> only common point is the reader used. Ummm... correction. It could
> >> still be the card if the problem is intermittent electrical contacts.
> >> It's possible for the card to have made good contact in the camera but
> >> to have bad contact when inserted into the reader. But I think that
> >> unlikely. If there's a problem there I think it would be the reader.
> >> Even if the problem is with contacts the reader (if a CF card) has tiny
> >> pins that can bend or break whereas the card itself has sockets for the
> >> pins.
> >>
> >> But this raises another question in my mind. Do you still have that
> >> card as it was? If so, can you still view the images on the camera.
> >> That would clinch the argument that the problem was with the reader.
> >>
> >> So, between cases #1 and #2 is doesn't seem that we can pin the fault on
> >> the camera. The card might be at fault for poor electrical contact at
> >> the time of download or it might be that it happened to fail elsewhere
> >> at the time of download but it seems to me more likely that the problem
> >> is with the reader for case #1 and with the Mac's finder app for case
> >> #2. Having finder be bad strikes me as very unlikely but I can't make a
> >> logical case for anything else given the description of the problem.
> >>
> >> Given that you've said you didn't pull the plug in case #3 it's still a
> >> mystery to me. Although, if the card in use was the same card as in
> >> case #1 one could make an argument that there was an electrical contact
> >> problem with the card when in the reader in case #1 and in the camera in
> >> case #3 with both problems the fault of the card. If the card has a
> >> poor or intermittent contact it may work at times and fail at others.
> >>
> >> On a side note do you label your cards? I have 2, 4 and 8 GB cards.
> >> The are labeled 2A, 2B, 4A, 4B, 4C and 8A, 8B, 8C, 8D, 8E, 8F. I've
> >> never had any anomalous behavior from any of them but if something odd
> >> does occur I can easily keep track of which card was involved.
> >>
> >> As I said before, if you can find some more sophisticated recovery
> >> software it may be able to recover your dance images. That's assuming
> >> that the write capability of the card didn't fail completely and that
> >> the images are actually there.
> >>
> >> If you can't get that to work I'd next try disk clone software that
> >> ignores the directory and just does a sector by sector copy of the
> >> entire card on to another one of equal capacity. Then I would format
> >> the new copy in camera. Remove it and take it back to the computer to
> >> try the recovery software again. With the directory erased by the
> >> format the recovery software will have no choice but to try scanning the
> >> complete card looking for JPEG file headers. But don't format your
> >> original until you've worked first on the copy.
> >>
> >> Chuck Norcutt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> siddiq@xxxxxxx wrote:
> >>> On Jul 2, 2010, at 5:49 PM, Chuck Norcutt wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Ok, I'll try to make as much sense of this as I can.
> >>>>
> >>>> In case 1 the scenario that makes most sense is that the card
> >>>> reader has a problem. I would normally say that the files on the
> >>>> card were corrupted except you say you could view them on the
> >>>> camera. If so then the images on the card had to be good. Since
> >>>> we won't hypothesize that all 3 computers were bad the only common
> >>>> thing between them all is the same card reader. But there is still
> >>>> a possible fly in the ointment here. When you say you could view
> >>>> them on the computer
> >>> do you mean camera?
> >>>
> >>>> do you mean as in successively reviewing images in playback mode or
> >>>> was it just seeing them pop up on the screen as they were shot. If
> >>>> the latter you could have been viewing just an image in the buffer
> >>>> that had not yet been written to the card. If that were the case
> >>>> the card could still have been corrupt and you wouldn't have known
> >>>> it. That would put the error back on a corrupt card.
> >>> If above was supposed to be camera, i could view them successively,
> >>> even magnifying some shots in playback mode to check expressions.
> >>> Don’t have camera set to review image after exposure.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Case 2 is a total mystery to me except for hypothesizing an error
> >>>> in finder since another app, iphoto, is able to display an entire
> >>>> image and also export it intact. That says the image on the card
> >>>> had to be there in its entirety and was successfully copied to the
> >>>> computer.
> >>>>
> >>>> But surely there is also a case 3? You say you lost *all* of your
> >>>> dance images even though you could recover older images with
> >>>> recovery software. Losing all of your just shot images is
> >>>> consistent with having lost the directory. That could happen if
> >>>> the camera was writing and lost power or if the card was removed
> >>>> before the writing was done. The last thing that's written is the
> >>>> directory update to say where all the files are located. But that
> >>>> *shouldn't* happen with a normal power off. The camera is supposed
> >>>> to ignore power off until its done writing. Of course, if you
> >>>> pulled the card out of its slot before writing was done the camera
> >>>> has lost control and you've lost your images.
> >>> That’s what I thought too, but I powered off the camera, walked back
> >>> to office, and put card into reader. Plenty of time :( Lots of juice
> >>> in battery. Wasn’t shooting in AFS or continuous-high-release mode
> >>> either.
> >>>
> >>>> Now then, why did the recovery software find old images. It's
> >>>> because there was still an old copy of the directory there and you
> >>>> deleted images rather than reformat. Deleting or erasing images
> >>>> doesn't eliminate the directory entry that points to that image.
> >>>> It only marks the entry as deleted without actually erasing
> >>>> anything. The original entry is still there. The camera's file
> >>>> system knows enough to ignore the entry because it's marked as
> >>>> deleted. But the recovery software says, "Oh, Siddiq wants me to
> >>>> recover all this old stuff that's marked deleted." And that's what
> >>>> you got. Your original images are probably still there too but,
> >>>> because there was a valid but obsolete directory there, that's what
> >>>> the recovery software picked up on.
> >>>>
> >>>> More advanced recovery software could probably get them back but it
> >>>> needs to know enough to scan the files themselves rather than the
> >>>> obsolete directory. If you had formatted the card rather than
> >>>> erased files the recovery software would probably have picked up
> >>>> both the new and old images but wouldn't know their camera assigned
> >>>> file names.
> >>>>
> >>>> But I still can't explain everything to my complete satisfaction.
> >>>> I'm still bothered by the abberant behavior of the finder.
> >>>>
> >>>> Chuck Norcutt
> >>> After the first occurrence, thought it was some freak accident, but
> >>> now that’s it’s happened again, I’m wondering if I should worry :(
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> siddiq@xxxxxxx wrote:
> >>>>> On Jul 2, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Chuck Norcutt wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm having trouble here since parts of the story (as I
> >>>>>> understand it) don't seem to add up. The clarifications you've
> >>>>>> added on this message and the previous one say the problem
> >>>>>> exists with the images as they are stored on the card because
> >>>>>> the corrupted images move wherever the card goes. Or is it
> >>>>>> maybe the reader? Does the reader move with the card? If
> >>>>>> that's true it's the camera, the card or the reader... it can't
> >>>>>> be the computer. However you have also stated that, after a
> >>>>>> download, images on the same computer displayed by one
> >>>>>> application are corrupted but on another application they are
> >>>>>> not. That says one of the apps is corrupting an otherwise fine
> >>>>>> image. It can't be both ways... or if it is you have a truly
> >>>>>> confused problem scenario.
> >>>>> Sorries, was posting about two diff times this happened. The
> >>>>> first time (last month or so), all the pics on card, in camera,
> >>>>> looked ok. Put card in cardreader, Mac saw partial images (most
> >>>>> were less than 1/4th). Same card/reader on another mac, and
> >>>>> finally a PC, same results, partial images.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2nd time (yesterday), images reviewed on camera fine, but on mac
> >>>>> showed as partials in finder, complete in iphoto. if i exported
> >>>>> them out of iphoto (after importing them), they showed up
> >>>>> complete images.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> You haven't used any recovery software on this card have you?
> >>>>>> The scenario you describe (some JPEG images are truncated) can
> >>>>>> happen if you delete images on the card while you're shooting
> >>>>>> and the directory is later lost due to reformatting or other
> >>>>>> problems. With the directory gone or damaged the recovery
> >>>>>> software may not be able to figure out where some images start
> >>>>>> and end because (due to the intermediate file deletions) the
> >>>>>> image storage may not be in contiguous clusters. Trying to
> >>>>>> read these back may produce only the first part of an image
> >>>>>> leaving some amount of the bottom portion chopped off. The
> >>>>>> rest of the image is probably still there but the software
> >>>>>> can't figure out which intial image fragment it belongs to.
> >>>>> The only time I ran recovery app was when I lost the entire dance
> >>>>> shoot. Couldn’t recover any dance images (oddly, could recover
> >>>>> photos from prior shoots). I rarely delete images on camera, and
> >>>>> never via Explorer/Finder. Standard procedure is to first copy or
> >>>>> import all the photos to computer, put card back in E3, and
> >>>>> delete all (or more recently, format card, just because). I
> >>>>> wonder if turning off the camera right after a burst of images
> >>>>> had anything to do with it? It was just a power off via rear
> >>>>> switch, not a battery-dying power off.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Chuck Norcutt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> siddiq@xxxxxxx wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Chuck Norcutt wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Now I'm totally confused. The first part says the images
> >>>>>>>> were transferred to the computer OK but something unusual
> >>>>>>>> happened to them after they got there. The second part
> >>>>>>>> says the problem moved to a different computer along with
> >>>>>>>> the card and reader. Got a different card or reader?
> >>>>>>> The first time this happend (last month I think), I did try
> >>>>>>> taking the card/reader to a PC and another Mac to eliminate
> >>>>>>> my own machine out of the loop. all three machines showed the
> >>>>>>> same partial image. Mac 10.5, 10.6 and WinXP/sp3
> >>>>>>>> Also I don't know what it means (physically) to "re-export"
> >>>>>>>> an image from the iphoto library on a Mac. I don't know if
> >>>>>>>> that means the image was physically copied to a different
> >>>>>>>> place or only that a pointer to it was handed off. There
> >>>>>>>> are different implications of each.
> >>>>>>> importing copies to the applications photo library/database,
> >>>>>>> so diff/new file, not a pointer to the same one
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Chuck Norcutt
> >>>> --
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> >>>>
> >> --
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> >>
> >>
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