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Re: [OM] iPhone et al

Subject: Re: [OM] iPhone et al
From: Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 02:37:33 -0700
On 10/31/2010 10:06 AM, Jan Steinman wrote:
>> From: Moose<olymoose@xxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> On 10/29/2010 6:59 AM, Bob Whitmire wrote:
>>> As Chris pointed out, Apple-Q will do the trick.
>> As will Alt-F4 in Windoze. And I'll freely admit the Mac keyboard shortcut 
>> is the more intuitive of the two.
> There's probably a way to do this in Windows as well, but you can easily 
> re-map ANY keypress via the Keyboard System Preference. You can make your Mac 
> quit any application with Alt-F4 if you choose.

Damn! I'm like a dog with a bone. I should quit this thread, but keep chewing.

I'm talking from the viewpoint of the low-tech user. Sure, you can re-map the 
keyboard, but all that would do is confuse 
them. I'm not saying the Mac should use Alt-F4. I'm talking about making key 
functions intuitive and transparent to the 
casual user.

>> Not saying there is anything wrong with Macs or their OS. Only that this 
>> aspect of it is inconsistent with their claims to be open and intuitive to 
>> operate.
> It's not so clear which behaviour we should call less open and less 
> intuitive. Closing a window quits an application is supposed to be "open and 
> intuitive?" I find it the opposite! Closing a window means closing a window 
> -- no more, no less! THAT seems more "open and intuitive" to me.

No, no, no! The users I'm talking about don't know, don't want to know, and 
don't care about the technical difference 
between a window and an app. To them, when a window pops up and they work in 
it, that IS the app.

You and I know the difference; I've spent many, many hours programming them. 
But the folks who just want to get the work 
done don't know things like that. I've programmed and supported quite a few 
apps. Use of some was an important part of 
clerical folks' jobs. Others are used by top management. Both have to be highly 
transparent and intuitive. The former so 
the grunts can be efficient and remain mostly sane and the latter so the 
technically unsophisticated, but powerful, 
don't complain and can make their important decisions.

Yup, I didn't use the standard Windoze drop down menu interface.  Lordy it's 
slow when you have to drill down to where 
the actual work takes place. "File=>Print=> click OK" in pop-up print menu, 
feh! Click on the Print button or Ctrl-P and 
out comes the report for the data on the page you are looking at. Most Mac apps 
I've used use the same sort of, 
standard, hierarchical, programming model as Win apps.

I've has to walk them through using hem when there is a problem. You can't 
believe how difficult that can be. You tell 
them to don one thing, and one thing only, then tell you what happens. The you 
hear the keyboard clicking ... "What did 
you just do?" Oh, just what I always do." And of course that turns out to be 
the problem, as often as not.

I provide Carol with a computer and am her tech support. She is smart and adept 
on her computer at the things she wants 
to do on it. If I started telling her the difference between a window and an 
app, she would either start looking blank 
as she tuned out or ask me why she should know or care.

And that's the point. She shouldn't have to know. She should be able to click 
on an icon to start a program*, use it, 
then click on an icon to close it. I thought that kind of transparency was what 
the Apple interface was supposed to be 
about.

Dogged Moose

* Yes, I have icons for everything she uses on a task bar. I don't use the 
built-in Windoze one, for my own reasons. But 
in case you aren't familiar, Win from at least XP has a task bar along the 
bottom. Most apps give the option of creating 
a start icon there when being installed. (Apple apps are the primary, annoying 
exceptions, installing both desktop and 
taskbar icons every single time they are installed or updated. Stupid gits.)

So ... the garden variety Windoze user doesn't have to get into any menu(s) at 
all to run their programs. One click, and 
it starts.



> (As I pointed out earlier, there are Mac apps where closing the window *does* 
> quit the application. But these are always applications -- like System 
> Preferences -- that do not allow more than one window open, and that do not 
> have "New" or "Open" options.)
>
> What you're used to colours your opinions. Those who have always "known" that 
> closing a window closes the application can't imagine the usefulness of any 
> other way, but I often will close the last window of an application, then use 
> "File -->  Open..." (CMD-O) or "File -->  New" (CMD-N) to start working on 
> something else -- an option that is denied me in Windows. In Windows, I have 
> to navigate the file hierarchy to find the file I want to open, or use the 
> "Start" menu.
>
> I'll go along with your statement if you preface it with "Lacking other 
> experience, in my opinion..." But otherwise, my experience leads me to think 
> of the Mac window closing behaviour as *more* open and intuitive.
>
> But we are all products of our experience, no?
>
> ----------------
> It is the weak who are cruel. Gentleness can only be expected from the 
> strong. -- Leo Roskin
> :::: Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op ::::
>

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