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[OM] The thread that wouldn't die [was OT Wot is jazz?]

Subject: [OM] The thread that wouldn't die [was OT Wot is jazz?]
From: Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 21:16:06 -0700
On 4/11/2011 3:22 PM, Ken Norton wrote:
>> Ok, moose, I can take the gun and suv stuff, but you must stop at the Miles 
>> bashing!
> Uh oh!  Moose has finally stepped over the line. We can put up with most
> anything, but Miles bashing is a bridge too far.

On 4/12/2011 8:21 AM, Nicholas Herndon wrote:
> If you only buy one jazz album in your life, it should be "Kind of
> Blue" by Miles Davis.

You know, I bought Kind of Blue back when it was new, on the advice of others. 
I hated it so much that I somehow managed 
to browbeat the record store to take it back. I was young and poor and that was 
too much money to waste on something I 
hated. I have it on CD now, and can tolerate it. Enjoyment may have to wait on 
another incarnation.

On 4/23/2011 4:31 PM, Ken Norton wrote:
> Brian, you are just about to be voted off the island. :)

On 4/23/2011 5:14 PM, John Hudson wrote:
> Jazz should be voted off the music island :-)

Aaaah, nice to see consensus opinions. ;-)

It seems to me that all the major genres cover such a wide range of highly 
disparate music that generalizations have 
little or no meaning. What relationship does Couperin have to Stravinsky, to 
Glass?

I enjoy lots of music under the loose rubric of Jazz, Jelly Roll Morton, much 
Dixieland, Bix Beiderbecke, Brubeck, 
Ellington, the MJQ, Holly Cole, and so on. Davis, Contrane, and that whole 
group who mix unpleasant sounds with mind 
numbing repetition just don't float my boat. No need to castigate me in public 
- just pity me in private. :-)

On 4/23/2011 5:21 PM, (without taking a breath) John Hudson wrote:
> . . . Compared to such towering
> pinnacles in the classical world of the piano such as Murray Perahia, Radu
> Lupu, and Nelson Freire whereabouts do any jazz players stand?

I dislike almost all rap and hip-hop. That doesn't prevent me from recognizing 
that some of their practitioners are very 
talented musicians; same for jazz. Take any number of them away from their 
public specialty and/or love, and you will be 
surprised to find that many are excellent at the classical repertoire, at which 
they trained. Same for a lot of rock 'n 
rollers, including heavy metal.

I just don't think there is any meaningful way to compare talent between 
different genres.

More specifically, I like and have a fair sized collection of classical piano - 
and I wouldn't have chosen any of your 
three favorites as "towering pinnacles"
I have pretty much the whole Murray Perahia set of Mozart Piano Concertos. Hard 
to say they aren't generally excellent, 
but not the best in all, perhaps even most, cases. I prefer Ashkenazy for those 
of his I have, Barenboim is awfully 
good, though overall no better than Perahia and Curzon for #27 is a pinnacle, 
to my ears, and excellent for #20.

I mostly think of Bishop-Kovacevich in Beethoven, but his Mozart Nos 20 & 27 
are, to me, better than Perahia. Perahia is 
almost, but not quite, too . . . well, for want of a better word, effete (well, 
maybe polite) for the gutsier parts of 
Mozart. I don't remember if he did Beethoven, but I wouldn't even consider him 
for that. I mostly think of Gilels in 
terms of Beethoven, but his 27 is wonderful and his Double with his wife is 
excellent.

Horowitz did Concerto #23 (with Giulini and company mostly just along for the 
ride) with a combination of strength, 
delicacy and beauty that I find a pinnacle. His Mozart is often spectacular. 
Careful listening of his Sonata K. 333 
against Uchida shows him both more muscular when called for and more delicate, 
when appropriate, than that paragon of 
delicacy.

When I was collecting, there was only limited Lupu available. I've got a little 
somewhere around here. My recollection 
is that he had a strong, almost wild streak, and Perahia could have become 
truly great by taking some Lupu pills. I'm 
afraid I know nothing about Freire. I see he's almost my age, so he must have 
been around a while, oh well.

Still, to me, you missed the towering greats of classical piano. Which is only 
to say again, as I did above about 
composers, that experience and opinions vary. Nobody's Right and Everybody's 
Wrong - just to bring in some great talent 
from another genre. :-)

There are just so many great pianists, we are very blessed. I heard George 
Lopez* do the Goldberg Variations last fall 
at Bowdoin College in Maine. Just excellent - and his vocalizations were 
informative talk before the music, not mumbling 
during it. :-)

A. Musical Moose

PS: This mail gave the spell chucker it's biggest workout in some time.

* Yes, he is amusing, not least in talking about his comedic namesake.


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