TAKO. INTERNET SEIT 1996.
Olympus-OM

Re: [OM] Kodak Chapter 11

Subject: Re: [OM] Kodak Chapter 11
From: "Bill Pearce" <billcpearce@xxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:08:08 -0600
The sad fact is that like many things here, it's better than most 
alternatives. recently, I've seen calls to privatize government pensions, 
including the one here in Kansas for teachers, who have been seriously 
underpaid for years and many retiring now have no savings. If SS were made 
like a 401k it would be great in the up years, but imagine if we had done 
that when Bush was president? When the market crashed, there would be waves 
and waves of retirees marching on Washington asking for relief, and what 
politician could say no? Even more screwed than now.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Charles Geilfuss
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 7:30 PM
To: Olympus Camera Discussion
Subject: Re: [OM] Kodak Chapter 11

Bill,
   It's even worse than that; many depend on it as their sole source of
retirement income which is tantamount to slow starvation. It was never
meant to be anything but a supplement to pensions, savings, etc. But it was
poorly designed from the beginning; it is regressive and gave no thought to
changes in demographics. Congress has tweaked it over the decades by
increasing the taxation rate and applying to larger portions of income. But
Congress ever expands the benefits and continually "borrows" the excess, so
at any given time it is projected to run out of money within a generation.
This is not a right wing, left wing or chicken wing thing. It is a simple
matter of mathematics. If the rate of increase of benefits exceeds the rate
of growth in income the program will always at some time fall short. Even
if you take it to the absurd level of taxing everyone's income at 100%
eventually you will run out of funds.
  Looking back at my e-mail the only individuals who would be "screwed"
would be those who could afford to give it up. It can't be all things to
all people. We should just honestly admit that SS is a method of income
redistribution and move on.

Charlie

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Bill Pearce <billcpearce@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> Charlie,
> All that's easy to say, but only if you are currently not depending on SS
> as
> a portion of your retirement income. I find this typical of members of the
> right, in which the attitude is, "Fuck over the next guy so I can have
> more."
> Our financial sense has to be tempered with some consideration for those
> that won't fare well. It annual SS contribution is capped now, you only
> contribute on income up to about 125,000. We could raise that figure a bit
> and not make anyone suffer, but we can listen to politicians that have a
> sweetheart retirement deal and make piles of money say it's better to cut
> payments. Like the retirees can do anything about it.
>
> Bill Pearce
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Geilfuss
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 1:03 PM
> To: Olympus Camera Discussion
> Subject: Re: [OM] Kodak Chapter 11
>
>   I will admit to a bit of hyperbole, but by saying it is broke I mean 
> that
> SS is pretty close to the point where outlays exceed what is brought in by
> the payroll tax (it may have actually reached that point this last year or
> so) and the administrators are forced to pull funds from the SS Trust Fund
> which of course doesn't actually exist. It is simply an IOU from the rest
> of the government to make up the shortfall. So the additional funds have 
> to
> come from general revenues which we all know is already in a deficit. So
> something either has to lose its funding, more taxes must be raised or we
> borrow more money from China. That is OK as a short term fix but is not
> sustainable in the long term. It can be fixed but no one in Congress has
> the cojones to do what is needed. First, the rate at which payments to
> retirees are increased has to be lowered. I forget what index it is tied 
> to
> but the current rate is too high. Secondly, the retirement age has to be
> raised to reflect increasing lifespan of the population. Thirdly, they 
> need
> to implement means testing. If you have other retirement income your SS
> payment is taken back at a proportional rate. So there is enough here to
> make everyone unhappy so it must be the right thing to do. It would also
> help if the rest of the government could balance its budget so it didn't
> have to raid the SS Trust Fund to make its budget deficit look less bad.
> I'm not sure what the SS administrators would do with all that cash but
> even if they stuffed it in a giant mattress it would be better than
> spending it only to have to tax even more to make up the difference.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Mike Lazzari
> <watershed@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> > >    We have Social Security, but oh it's broke too.
> > It isn't broke. That's misconception. But it's hard to keep the people's
> > hands out of any big pot of $$$.
> >
> > BTW, How come when the gov't collects it's a tax but when you pay into a
> > pension fund it's an investment? And which ones are going TU?
> >
> > Mike
> > --
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