Moose, thank you - the effort, and the reasons behind it - it is much
appreciated :-)
You put me in a very difficult position, you know. The types of image
I have been posting
(*here* - I post medium and large format elsewhere) are bound by two
constraints:
- Small, compact cameras to carry around everywhere, and capture
moments largely unnoticed
- I shoot B&W film, and I print in the darkroom. Now, my prints look a
heck of a lot smoother than the scans I post here, because they are
not digitally sharpened.
You are basically saying that I simply cannot use OM Zuikos to realise
my vision properly? Because, much as I also have the ability to
digitally smooth my backgrounds (I have been doing hard-core digital
imaging including 3D modeling, animation, 2D illustration, HDR, etc
since I was 15), I did not get into traditional photography just to
mess with the image structurally in the digital realm. That's not what
it's about for me.
I would perhaps ask you, which fast 35mm lenses would actually suit
your tastes in terms of smooth out of focus rendering? Even my large-
format lenses are an odd mix of good and bad bokeh, but in 35mm it
seems to be basically impossible to find a fast lens that you agree
with? Even Leica M lenses can be tricked in to producing horrible
bokeh, but it seems I should sell all my gear and save up for a
Noctilux ASPH 50/0.95 (contrary to the title of my original post,
funnily enough...). Even there, it might be a let-down. The Zeiss C-
SOnnar 50/1.5 is very nice, 80% of the time. Can be bad as well.
At this time, only the Heliar 50mm f/3.5 - which has inherently deep
DOF - does the trick it seems :-)
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/100/1/7/a_grandmother_taken_for_tea_by_philosomatographer-d4vns42.jpg
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/100/7/1/contessa_interiour_by_philosomatographer-d4vnsgv.jpg
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/100/3/4/breakfast_for_one_by_philosomatographer-d4vns9f.jpg
(all three at f/3.5 - see the problemtic deep DOF for my style of work?)
Even the Nikkor-H.C 50mm f/2.0 I shoot in my F is bloody awful most of
the time bokeh-wise:
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/077/0/b/treasures_in_the_corner_by_philosomatographer-d4t4hfq.jpg
Though it can be wonderful sometimes - if there are no highlights in
the background.
I find it very interesting that you honestly think it matters all that
much - that the emotional connection
with the image is altered by bokeh smoothness. Not disagreeing, just
finding it interesting :-)
Dawid
On 12 Apr 2012, at 12:56 AM, Moose wrote:
> Aaaaaaaaargh ... I can't stand it!
>
> I know, you didn't want a treatise on bokeh. But I have this
> problem, see, I want my friends (well, everybody in the
> world, really, but especially friends) to find work doing what they
> love; work that supports them.
>
> You've got such an eye for your vision of the world captured in
> shallow DOF B&W. I want it to sell and make you a
> successful pro.
>
> I look at images like these, and I just want to cry. Lets just look
> at one, "What's keeping her?". A classic type of
> shot. People have been doing them at least since Henri C-B. This one
> of yours isn't a stand out, but it's good. You've
> got the subject in perfect focus, critical moment captured,
> background appropriate, Shallow DOF to isolate primary
> subject from background and focus on his expression and body
> language. Great stuff - until one notices the busy, edgy
> background. My eye keeps being distracted. Sigh.
> <http://www.moosemystic.net/Gallery/Others/Loubser/what__s_keeping_her__by_philosomatographer.htm
>
> >
>
> I'm no great shakes in knowledge of the great, successful
> photographers, but I have browsed my share of books. I'm not
> recalling such backgrounds - and you know I notice 'em. There are
> many H C-Bs on the web. I just looked through some.
> The vast majority have smooth bokeh. He isn't always able to use DOF
> as as strong a separator as you can, because such
> fast lenses weren't available to him. Of those here, only one, of
> the aggressive looking guy, has any edginess in the
> background. And look at the last one. Specular reflection in the
> glass, but it has no weird edges.
> <http://www.photopathway.com/photography/henri-cartier-bressons-sayings/
> >
>
> And today? Peter Turnley is a contemporary photographer who has made
> his living at it for a few decades. And he takes
> pics of folks in bars, albeit it in Paris. :-)
>
> Do you see bright, hard edges, multiple edges, halos around shadows,
> or multiplied fine lines here?
> <http://www.peterturnley.com/printsite/page02.php>
> Or here? <http://www.peterturnley.com/printsite/page07.php>
> Here? <http://www.peterturnley.com/printsite/page57.php>
>
> Those images sell as 16x20s for $1,200. He just sold almost 500
> prints in a week in a special sale on TOP.
>
> My conclusion is that what people with the $ to buy find art
> photographs expect to see, and are most inclined to buy, in
> the kind of work you do, is smooth bokeh, even though they probably
> have never heard the term, and might not consciously
> notice it - unless it bit them. There is simply an emotional
> difference between smooth and hard edged.
>
> So, if you are just having a lot of fun shooting and printing, and
> worshiping the occasional new lens, ignore me. If you
> have any thoughts of selling images in any quantity, and at decent
> prices, take a closer look at what you are doing and
> what has been successful for others. Maybe even keep track of what
> people are buying in galleries, if possible.
>
> Artists do sometimes get away with a new 'look' or esthetic, but
> only, I think, when it is part of a legitimate vision,
> a way of seeing differently, that captures some buyers' attention.
> And I don't see that sort of vision in the bokeh in
> your work.
>
> Ranting Moose, Employment Consultant
>
> --
> What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?
> --
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