Back to Brian's original conundrum: Using photos to capture or notebook a
scene for later painting is a long-accepted practice in real world art.. at
least it was back when I went to art schools in the early 50s. Many
professionals carry it beyond that - to the point of projecting slides
directly on their canvas.
As for making money, I've made more money on single sales of art than I
ever have in photography (and that includes photo spreads in national mags)
but I've made a better income, or at least more a consistent one, with
photography.
Rick
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Chuck Norcutt <
chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Bob has apparently forgotten his prior position that "Art's just fart
> without the 'f'" Sorry, I can't join you guys in your angst. I just
> take pictures.
>
> Chuck Norcutt
>
>
> On 4/12/2012 6:11 PM, Ken Norton wrote:
> > Bob,
> >
> > I'm going to challenge your thinking a little here. Feel free to
> challenge
> > back.
> >
> > Profit=Hack. I think you've gotten yourself into the anti-Kinkade mode
> here
> > where profit from art means being a hack. Kincade was a hack that managed
> > to key in on the Norman Rockwell worshipers and Beanie Babie buyers and
> was
> > able to turn it into an industry. Artist? Hardly. Successful illustrator
> > and promoter? Absolutely. It's sad, but if you go to most art fairs
> around
> > this country, you'll find that this kind of emotive "feel good 'art'"
> sells
> > 10:1 over real art. But the reality is that Mr. Kinkade managed to anchor
> > down one extreme end of the spectrum. Being able to turn mass-produced
> > 4-color offset prints into a lucrative business where the stores would
> > carry reprints instead of original art. A 4-color print selling for
> $1200?
> > Amazing. The ones with actual paint on them even more!
> >
> > A successful artist will spend 90-95% of his/her effort and time
> promoting.
> > That means that for every work of art that takes a full day to produce
> will
> > require up to 20 days of effort to sell/promote. Do the math. This is the
> > real world for real artists. It is the fact of life. Otherwise, what is
> the
> > purpose of the art? Nobody is going to randomly knock on doors in your
> > neighborhood asking if you are an artist and if you have anything to
> sell.
> > Seeking out artists is not done in the same manner of people searching
> old
> > barns looking for abandoned classic cars. Art is a message for the
> artist.
> > If you have a message, don't you want it to be heard/seen?
> >
> > Craftsman vs. Artist. What is the difference? I think you have found
> > yourself in the position of a craftsman. You're producing INCREDIBLE
> work,
> > but for the express purpose of the sale, not the message. A craftsman is
> > NOT a hack. A craftsman is an expert that usually lives a pretty good
> > lifestyle and is able to support a spouse and put kids through school. A
> > craftsman almost always possesses more skills and technical understanding
> > of the art than the artist who is carving new paths forward. But the
> artist
> > needs to live with somebody else who is paying the bills and usually
> > raising the kids. The artist is mentally not there half the time. Yes,
> I'm
> > stereotyping a bit, but not by much. Insert "musician" for "artist" if
> you
> > want.
> >
> > Bob, you and I are craftsmen. We know how to produce whatever it is that
> we
> > want. Our skills (although bent a bit differently to different areas) are
> > comparable and we both know how to shoot pictures to make a buck. If the
> > purpose is primarily to make a buck then we aren't fulfilling our own
> > vision, but the vision of the customers. No different than a commercial
> > photographer who does whatever the art director says. Or the wedding
> > photographer that shoots a set of pictures that fulfill a very narrow
> > purpose. Or the photojournalist that is shooting for the editors. Are all
> > these "hacks"? Of course not. But by your broad definition of hack, they
> > could be. They are just fulfilling the commitments of life where if you
> > don't work you don't eat.
> >
> > What do you call the artist photographer that just broke up with his
> > girlfriend? Homeless.
> >
> > I'm going to pick on NSURIT for a second. Bill is an exceptional
> > photographer and very creative. But I recognize a distinct turning point
> > where he went from capturing life, to capturing scenes with an unique
> > vision to now expressing original vision. To pick on myself, I've gone
> from
> > capturing life to expressing original vision to capturing scenes. I so
> > desired to make money with my photography that I shifted my own vision to
> > that of the customers' vision. Whatever sells, I shoot. At some point, we
> > just burn out and don't want any part of it. That's one reason why I gave
> > up on stock photography. Besides not making any money due to depressed
> > prices and technology warfare, it's hard to be excited about spending
> time,
> > effort and money shooting, editing, keywording and uploading stuff so
> > somebody can buy it for 67 cents of which I get a third. All so it can be
> > used to illustrate somebody's blog.
> >
> > Why do I want a new camera? Is it for the "art"? Of course not. It's for
> > the money making opportunities. Does this make me anything other than a
> > photographer whore? I'll sell myself (time, effort, energy and sometimes
> my
> > own health) in exchange for money. The new camera is just a new set of
> > clothes, heels and makeup.
> >
> > So, I've now turned this from being a "hack" to a "whore". I hope you
> feel
> > a little better now. :)
> >
> > Seriously, this is a perspective change for me. What do I want to
> > accomplish with my photography? Do I really give a rip about taking a
> > picture of another barn at sunset? Please! Weddings? Hey, everybody has a
> > price. Does this bright red leather skirt make my hips look big?
> >
> > No, just like you, I'm trying to find greater meaning in this endeavor.
> > I've got something to say and I really don't care if people like the
> > message or not because until I get it out, it's just sitting in there
> > burning away. In my case, it's actually involves mixed-media, but that's
> > another story.
> >
> > However, I'll toss another perspective out here. In my "day job" I've
> been
> > able to do something extremely unique and original once in two different
> > industries. Major technological shifts resulted from this creative
> vision.
> > I literally created an original methodology to deployment of a network
> > design which has since become the industry standard here in the USA. This
> > happened all within the last 18 months and is now the model which
> everybody
> > is copying. I would suggest that the underlying effort was 100% "art". I
> > consider anybody who is able to stare at a blank sheet of paper and come
> up
> > with something unique that has never been done before an artist. Being
> > creative isn't necessarily being an artist. But an artist must be
> creative.
> > An artist does push society forward. I would like to think that what I
> > created 18 months ago is pushing society forward. At least your new 4G
> > cellphone will thank me. Yes, it took 20x the effort/time to promote the
> > idea. One of the best compliments I got was when the VP of engineering
> for
> > one of the largest telecom companies in the world said "who is this guy
> and
> > why the ---- isn't he working for us?" It did get me a small raise and a
> > promotion.
> >
> > What the challenge is for me, is to apply the same creative and original
> > mindset to my preferred medium. I'd rather do my creating in an Olympus
> OM
> > than Microsoft Office.
> >
> > Bob, the question is this: Are you an artist that has successfully
> created
> > "art" in a medium not of your choosing? Is this what is bothering you?
> Just
> > like me, you want to do it through photography, but are you actually
> doing
> > it through other means without realizing it? I'm not unique. I know there
> > are many others on this list who are true artists in their own worlds.
> Just
> > because the resulting artwork doesn't take on tangible form in a way that
> > looks good hanging on a wall, or standing in the middle of a room or may
> be
> > seen by the masses doesn't diminish its value.
> >
> > An artist needs to reinvent himself constantly. It's only art the first
> > time you do something. That's it. We need to kick over the easel, throw
> the
> > paints against the wall and take the knife to the canvas once in a while.
> > All good artists throw hissy fits. It's necessary to get angry with what
> > we've done and declare war on the customers.
> >
> > If all else fails, chop off an ear.
> >
> > AG
> --
> _________________________________________________________________
> Options: http://lists.thomasclausen.net/mailman/listinfo/olympus
> Archives: http://lists.thomasclausen.net/mailman/private/olympus/
> Themed Olympus Photo Exhibition: http://www.tope.nl/
>
>
--
_________________________________________________________________
Options: http://lists.thomasclausen.net/mailman/listinfo/olympus
Archives: http://lists.thomasclausen.net/mailman/private/olympus/
Themed Olympus Photo Exhibition: http://www.tope.nl/
|