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Re: [OM] (OM) OT Update

Subject: Re: [OM] (OM) OT Update
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 10:31:03 -0400
I don't have any objections to a Mediterranean diet but I have never 
recommended it since I don't believe it can be well defined. 
Furthermore I have problems with those (such as Esselstyn recommending 
strictly vegetarian diets for prevention of heart disease, etc. since 
there is too much overwhelmingly contradictory evidence.  There are too 
many cultures with a very low incidence of heart disease that subsist 
nearly 100% on meat, fat, blood and fish for a strictly vegetarian diet 
to carry much weight.  IMHO, ignoring the contradictory evidence is 
hardly the way to conduct science.  Unfortunately, dietary "science" is 
hardly the only field that evidences bad scientific practice.

And I'm very surprised to find you still recommending a daily regimen of 
L-arginine.  Have you forgotten that I took you up on researching the 
use of L-arginine and what I discovered on PubMed?  You should know well 
that the original recommendation for the use of large quantities of 
L-arginine originated with the research of Dr. John P. Cooke of Stanford 
and publicized in his book "The Cardiovascular Cure".  You are also 
quite aware (since I copied you on the correspondence) that I found some 
negative papers and emailed Dr. Cooke and asked him whether his further 
research since his book was published in 2002 would cause him to alter 
his recommendations. You should clearly recall that his response was
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Yes, the book needs to be updated to take into account the new data, 
one of which papers is mine(the one from Stanford published in 
Circulation in 2007, showing no benefit and potential vascular harm from 
chronic use of Arginine in patients with Peripheral arterial disease. 
Accordingly I no longer recommend l-Arginine supplementation for heart 
and vessel health."
---------------------------------------------------------------------

You appear to have disregarded Dr. Cooke's comment that, although the 
negative effects were noted on patients with PAD that his recommendation 
to avoid L-arginine supplementation is *not limited* to patients with 
PAD.  You've only heard what you wanted to hear.

Science is not science without airing *ALL* of the data.

Chuck Norcutt


On 7/26/2013 8:49 AM, Brian Swale wrote:
> Stopping the bad "habits" is a vital start to recovery. But at the stage that
> Maggie is at, all her arteries are pretty certainly badly blocked. As far as I
> can tell she has not had an infarction ( very much hopefully, because that
> restricts some forms of remedial action).
> The next steps for her (as outlined by Nathan and Chuck) are to eat a diet
> somewhat akin to a :Mediterranean diet........
 >
 > And it is VERY
 > helpful to take from 1 to 6 gm per day of L-arginine.
 > The books by Dr Clark (ISBN 1-59975-022-8 ) for medical advice, and Dr
 > Caldwell Esselstyn III ( ISBN 10: 1-58333-300-2  ) for recipes, are
 > two of four I recommend..
 > These vital next steps are designed to remove the clogging in the
 > arteries.
 >
 > Apparently, PAD = Peripheral ArteriaL Disease ( the same stuff but in
 > the legs), is a tougher challenge. I have not seen any hypothesis
 > about why.
-- 
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