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Re: [OM] Satire on Satire

Subject: Re: [OM] Satire on Satire
From: Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 12:14:48 -0800
On 1/14/2015 9:44 PM, ChrisB wrote:
I agree, in part, Moose.  Although I do not deny the magazine its right to make 
satirical comment about whom they like (although satire used to be comment on 
the important people, normally unreachable by the masses) a right does not have 
to be exercised, especially if it offends.  And that offence was caused 
unnecessarily, whether in the case of the Danish cartoons or French.

In addition, I felt very sad to read about the people who decided that they 
could make it across the bridges when the river was in spate.

On 1/15/2015 1:13 AM, Frank wrote:
In that train of thought, we'll soon see a ban on skirts, public homosexual
behavior, non-religious newspapers, unwanted news stories, etc.

Whoa! Let me be clear. I am not advocating any sort of govt. intervention. YES, people should have at least all the rights they have today, probably more.

I am only saying that exercising certain of those rights, in certain ways, may be hazardous to one's health. Baiting people with guns and no sense of humor is a dangerous business. Each individual and/or group should evaluate their need to do so against the danger.

If someone jumps in front of a train, we are saddened; we wonder why, if it was necessary. But we don't blame the train, or the driver. We understand the blame (immediate, at least) to lie with the individual.

I am suggesting that a similar outlook might be more appropriate than a great deal of outrage and breast beating over the Hebden shootings. They took an obvious risk, and paid the unfortunate price. To blame the state for failing to protect them would be to advocate for exactly the loss of freedoms for all citizens you deplore above. A free society is inherently not risk free.

All rights that don't have to be exercised, and do offend some people.
Where will it end?

And who is the judge of necessity?

I don't believe Chris was advocating anything but individual decisions about 
exercise. I hope not.

To diminish the expression of thoughts in a cartoon as 'making fun' seems a 
very limited view in my opinion.

If those being targeted by a cartoon, or any satire, have a very different view of thought, individual rights, religion, etc. and no sense of humor, that's what it amounts to - to them. To you, or me, if we were targeted, not likely true.

I think of a cartoon as a reflection on something in society that is worth
reflecting on. Would it be different if it was an offending book, picture,
protest-song,..?

As above, I'm only talking about the possible consequences from other individuals/groups of individuals/groups exercising their rights in certain ways.

I am NOT advocating for government restriction of rights.

On 14 Jan 15, at 21:41, Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
How is making fun of extremists and terrorists different? How is it useful? In 
what universe might one imagine it will make things better?

Here, I was suggesting that some exercises of rights may have consequences in the larger world (as opposed directly to the exerciser(s)) opposite from what one might imagine are those desired by those taking the actions. ( I had hoped that my example of Molly Ivins might take this thought out of the immediate topic, into more general territory.)

Are satirical attacks on Muslims likely to:

Make the vast majority of peaceful, non extremist, non-terrorist followers of the Prophet more friendly? More likely to try to rein in their more extremist fellows?

Convince extremists and terrorists to change their ways? Make them angry? Make 
them more extreme?

No, I would not muzzle the satirists. I happen to think these particular ones are/were fools who are tending to make things worse, not better. But that is their right, in a free society, even though it leads to increased cost and inconvenience for me from the efforts of my country to minimize the effects.

If, as suggested in the last panel of the cartoon which started this thread, we, both East and West, had been "... sorting out how we fit in each other's world." for the last few decades, let alone centuries, might my taxes be lower, and the early arrival and security screening I just experienced over the last week unnecessary?

Advocating Thought Moose

--
What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?
--
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