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[OM] Re: Everyday camera

Subject: [OM] Re: Everyday camera
From: Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 14:34:41 -0800
DICK LAGUE wrote:

>Have you tried an LC1?  I understand the theory, but how does it really
>work in reality?
>
Nope. The only camera in this general class that I've played with is the 
Nik*n 5700 belonging to a friend. Nice package, takes nice pics in many 
ways. Too much noise even at the lowest iso and I could never use it 
because of the slow EVF frame rate. But that has little to do with what 
I'm talking about.

I'm talking about two things, personal preferences and technical 
performance.

As a matter of personal preference, I know from using many cameras over 
many years that there are breaking points of size and weight that effect 
how I relate to and use a camera. The Coolpix 5700 is quite a bit 
smaller and lighter than the DMC-LC1, but I already know from using it 
that it is big and bulky enough that I might as well be carrying a small 
DSLR. Neither will fit in a pocket and thus must be carried around 
hanging from my hand or around my neck. Thus, for me, and others will 
have different preferences, there is no practical difference in 
size/weight usability between a DMC-LC1 and a D300. At the next step up, 
I know that if I had one of the bigger, heavier Pro DSLRs, it wouldn't 
get all that much use. Anything over a certain size/weight just somehow 
magically stays home a lot. Of course size will go down as the 
technology matures.

The only way to really test electro/optical performance is from images. 
Unless one is lucky enough to be able to use a camera for a few days, as 
I was with the D60, just playing around tells a lot about feel/interface 
and not much about performance. If I had played with one, I could give 
my ergonomic/esthetic impressions, but they could be very different than 
your's might be.

However, evaluating image making performance is quite possible without 
ever seeeing or touching the camera. The various review sites, notably 
dpreview and Steve's Digicams, post full size sample shots of lots of 
different subjects at different isos, apertures, etc. It was obvious to 
me when I downloaded some of these, viewed them in PS and played with 
noise reduction software on them, that the 5 and 8mp prosumer cameras 
just didn't come close to the DSLRs in overall image quality, and 
especially in noise. The A2, for example, gains a couple of stops 
through IS, then loses it to a DSLR which is able to use a 2 stop or 
more faster shutter speed at a higher iso with no more noise. I did, in 
fact, go and play at least briefly with all the candidates for look and 
feel, viewfinder, etc., but only those that made images I found 
acceptable ever got serious consideration.

When I bought my son a P&S for his birthday and trip to Oz, reviews were 
read and sample images examined before I ventured out to view and feel 
the actual cameras. That way, there were only a handful to look at.

It's sort of like the spectacularly good looking woman I dated briefly 
in college. It felt odd at first walking around campus with her, 
something was different feeling, but I couldn't put my finger on it. 
Then I got it; every male eye in sight was looking toward me, an 
experience I wasn't used to. Looked great, would certainly have felt 
great if I'd gotten any further before her parents came to haul her away 
from the evils of the big city, but there wasn't much going on in the 
processer department.

Then, of course, there are all the other DSLR capabilities with 
interchangeable lenses, etc.

So I wouldn't be interested in a camera like the DMC-LC1 anyway. And 
then it is way over priced, unless I'm missing something big here. I can 
even see paying top $ for a special camera in a mature technology, but 
not in one that is changing as rapidly as DCs. I am only saved from 
Leicas by the fact that I don't much like rangefinders, but I can resist 
a Leica lens on this DC. At least with a DSLR, the lens investment 
doesn't have to be made again when upgrading bodies.

Moose

>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: olympus-owner@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:olympus-owner@xxxxxxxxxx] On
>Behalf Of Moose
>Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:23 AM
>To: olympus@xxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [OM] Re: Everyday camera
>
>I have to vote with Winsor here. Don't get sucked in by the big, fast, 
>wonderful lens. You don't get the benefit you think from the speed. I 
>don't know directly about noise on the DMC-LC1, but suppose it it 
>similar to the Min*lta A1, which has the same sensor size and mp count. 
>Take a look at the tests of the A1 
><http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimagea1/page16.asp> and 300D 
><http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/page13.asp> side-by-side. 
>The 300D has less noise at iso 800 than the A1 at 200 and is generally 2
>
>stops 'faster' in noise performance. So an f4-4.8 lens on the 300D has 
>the same effective ability to deliver an image as the f2-2.4 lens on the
>
>DMC-LC1. This can take a bit to get one's head around when steeped in 
>film, but it is true. One really big difference between prosumer cameras
>
>and DSLRs is a huge difference in noise. I was much enammored of the 
>idea of the A2 until I looked closely at the sample images. compared to 
>DSLRs.
>
>Again echoing Winsor, the small sensors have their place - in small 
>cameras. In a camera that gets close to the size/weight of a DSLR, they 
>don't make much sense. I thought they made sense in the super-zoom 
>cameras, as they had something special in the lenses. Now that I have a 
>Tamron 28-300 Di lens, I'm not even convinced about the super-zooms
>cameras.
>
>Winsor Crosby wrote:
>
>  
>
>><snip> Considering that it weighs a bit over 1.5 pounds and that
>>    
>>
>something 
>  
>
>>like a Canon 300D weighs 1.8 pounds with the kit lens I do not see the 
>>advantage of the Panasonic/Leica. The new Oly and Pentax may be lighter
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>yet. A small DSLR with an everyday LENS is a so much more capable 
>>combination in every way while not giving away much in size or 
>>convenience.
>>
>>    
>>
>>><snip> Any opinions here on the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LC1 ????  looks
>>>      
>>>
>very
>  
>
>>>interesting to me.....
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>
>
>
>
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>  
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