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Re: [OM] E-1 first impressions

Subject: Re: [OM] E-1 first impressions
From: Gregg Iverson <golftooter@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:01:47 -0500
Irony also requires a familiar usage of the idioms of the language. I find that lacking in a substantial percentage of individuals, depending on the part of the country I am traveling in. I spent the afternoon with a boss who tries hard but doesn't get this kind of speech. It can be trying for both of us I guess.

And I believe I have heard that puns are considered the most intelligent form of humor. They also involve playing with the meanings of words. But to say that seems a little self indulgent if one enjoys that form of humor. Oh, well. I guess it is better to enjoy life and it's little pleasures than to worry too much about how one is perceived.

Another form of speaking that is easily misunderstood is satire. I read recently that young people hear the words but don't hear the sarcasm in the voice, and teenagers hear the sarcastic tone but not the actual words spoken. I have tried to not use that delightful tool of speech in teaching since that time, regretfully with pleasant results. ;-0

gregg

I have a theory about irony - developed from watching several flame wars on chat lists. Generally speaking, Americans have an unfortunate reputation for not 'hearing' irony. I was puzzled by this - after all, this is the people who gave us Thurber, etc. They know what it is. But still, there was the evidence - endless arguments on lists triggered by misunderstood ironic comments. I speculated - what is it about American usage that suggests that ironies are missed. Best I could come up with is a Seinfeld theory. In American usage, irony exists and even abounds but is signalled - "Hey, this comment is ironic" (you can tell by my tone, facial expression, etc.) However, in British usage, (and Australian, and in French I suspect) irony is virtually the dominant form of speech. There is no signal - you expect it at any time. Consequently Europeans consider Americans to be a bit simple and Americans consider Europeans to be devious - neither true, even in a general sense. (Tourists excepted) [Ironic comment]. In a forum like this, where non-verbal signals are impossible and emoticons can be misunderstood, such errors are frequent and only goodwill and experience keeps it friendly.

Of course, you shouldn't take ANY of the above seriously - I'm not American after all! :)
AndrewF
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) (Now I've done that, I can deny any malicious intent and accuse objectors of being, er, well....)



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